64 Responses

  1. Rob
    Rob at |

    Jonni,
    I might have missed something in the wolf-mask sequence but I’m wondering what the recipe was for the fast drying paste that you used to attached the shop towel?
    I doubt it is simply glue and water; does it include plaster of paris for strength? It looks extremely strong when you cut it around the ears in the video – what proportions do you recommend in the mix?
    Also would you recommend using some sort of release agent on the clay core? It looked tricky to get the clay out of the back of those ears.

    I ask because I’m interested in using this process below to creating hollow puppet heads:
    1. start with sculpting a clay form for the puppet head,
    2. cover head all over with shop towels and fast drying paste
    3. once dry cut in half around edge with Dremel and remove clay core
    4. put halves back together and join seam with more towel and fast drying paste
    5. cover and detail with paper clay recipe
    6. paint and decorate

    Regards
    Rob

    Reply
  2. Sharon M
    Sharon M at |

    Well, before I get sidetracked…
    I finally finished el lobo. Thank you so much Jonni for your tutorials…helps me so much.
    Now off to get my tomatoes in the ground before it rains again..
    [img]http://ultimatepapermache.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/headredotwo001.JPG[/img]

    Reply
  3. Sharon M
    Sharon M at |

    Jonni, I had to laugh as I read your comment asking me “Do you always have angst…”

    Well, yes, I realize I do. Thanks for bringing that right up in my face. Now I feel childishly silly. I also realized I’d rather keep you as a friend, rather than my nanny.
    So, with that, I’m going back to working on El Lobo so I can get to my Mountain Lion next.

    Reply
  4. Karla
    Karla at |

    You guys might be interested in this: http://ddkportraits.com/2012/02/why-i-tearfully-deleted-my-pinterest-inspiration-boards/

    Gott say that deleting boards seems really extreme to me. Honestly, if youome objects to one of my pins I would immediately delete it.

    Reply
  5. nina
    nina at |

    This has been true for many, many, years. It is not a new problem.

    Reply
  6. nina
    nina at |

    Hi Jonni,

    I actually found this (great!) blogpost via pinterest. Pinterest always links back to the source so regardless if (silly) people don’t give you credit your website is there and you will get traffic from the pins. Pinterest is a HUGE boon to independent internet sellers and will do the same to expose artists. I agree wholeheartedly with Karla the bigger problem in TUMBLR, and actually the combination of those two sites. People post your work on tumblr with no credit and no link back to the source and then it gets pinned a million times so there is no way for someone to find the source. However, if people on pinterest were a. better educated about how to pin ie. from the specific blog posts, not from tumblr, not from google images, and how to give proper credit I think we would all find Pinterest to be an INCREDIBLE asset to us as artists.

    Reply
    1. Karla
      Karla at |

      Nina, re: “Pinterest always links back to the source so regardless” … this is not always the case. Particularly if the image is uploaded by a user. Also, it seems like a lot of images I come across are linked from TUMBLR (see my comment above about them) and they most frequently do not have any type of link back to the source.

      Reply
      1. nina
        nina at |

        karla, if you read the comment you would see I mention this as a specific problem. With regards to copyright law the issue has MUCH more to do with the internet in general than pinterest or tumblr. The RISD alumni society gave a lecture last year given by a lawyer on copy right and fair use and he said that as soon as you publish something on the internet it is pretty much out of your hands. Until we get it all figured out you publish photos of your work at your own risk.

        Reply
  7. Karla
    Karla at |

    With my recent experiences exploring the internet, I would have to say as an artist I much more worried about TUMBLR … I am constantly running up against images with no link back and no info. This has, for the most part, not been the case on pinterest.

    Reply
  8. GhoulishCop
    GhoulishCop at |

    Only because I know of your interest in this — and nowadays it seems to jump out everywhere at me — Flickr is now offering an opt-out code for Pinterest, where if you don’t want your photos pinned to the site you can choose that option. Seems like anti-Pinterest sentiment is growing, or at least a greater recognition of the copyright violations it represents.

    http://venturebeat.com/2012/02/24/flickr-pinterest-pin/

    Rich

    Reply
  9. GhoulishCop
    GhoulishCop at |

    Jonni,

    Just a follow up, but apparently this issue is getting a lot of traction lately. I just found this article that discusses the copyright violations of Pinterest, particularly as it pertains to businesses using the service, and warning as you have that the devil really is in the TOS details.

    I don’t use Pinterest, but now since you’ve raised this concern, I’d be really hesitant to do so now. Thanks for broaching the subject and raising awareness of the potential pitfalls.

    Rich

    Reply
    1. GhoulishCop
      GhoulishCop at |
      Reply
  10. Sharon M
    Sharon M at |

    It’s interesting reading everyone’s thoughts here.
    I don’t like it one tiny bit. Was never drawn to shady dealings. You have read that the FBI is currently soliciting applications to internet sites for their new project right? If not, the FBI wants new apps to Wire Tap the Internet enabling them (FBI) to have these taps to check on anybody at any time using the ‘social network monitors’ on these sites. I found this information on ConsumerDreams.org which took me to the USA.gov Social Media Application. I was able to check there on their link some Internet sites that have shown interest.
    As far as I’m concerned, everyone should be aware of this. Some more shady stuff going on here.
    As I said, I don’t like this stuff at all. Could almost admit it raises the hairs on the back of my neck.

    Reply
  11. Teresa
    Teresa at |

    It’s the giving “Pinterest the right to profit ” from the work of others, or even their own work, that kills me. I used to belong to varous discussion groups, “List Mails” as they used to be called. The site that ran them decided to change it’s policy to one that basically said that all posts and images were the sole property of the site and they could use any part of them as they wished. Basically what Pinterest states it is doing. Needless to say I quit that site and never looked back. Those were my words and my thoughts. Nobody has the right to their ownership but me. Nobody has the right to use them as they wish without my approval. Nobody has the right to profit from them but me unless we have an agreed upon arrangement.

    Needless to say that when joining a discussion group now I ALWAYS read the agreement before I join.

    Right now SOPA (Stop Online Piracy Act) and PIPA (Protect IP Act) are on hold because of the major uproar they have caused. It’s sites like Pinerest that might make bills like SOPA and PIPA possible sometime in our future.

    People just don’t think about what they are doing and they rarely read the agreements. Plus there are a whole lot of people who just don’t care. They Believe that everything on the internet is fair game, it belongs to all, and if the owner/creator of it didn’t want other people to “take” it and use it however they want….. the owner/creator shouldn’t have put it on the internet in the first place.

    With that said when it comes to images there are ways to create/code web sites that prevent people from copying images. I’ve ran across a few over the years. I don’t know how to do it, but I do know it’s possible.

    Reply
    1. Sharon M
      Sharon M at |

      Just one last note on this Jonni, if you don’t mind.

      I am in total agreement with Teresa on everything she stated. Oh, and you know the PIPA and SOPA deal is NOT going to go away. They are already working on a way to squeeze it through and not necessarily for the ‘reasons’ they stated that appear acceptable.

      Enough said. And thanks Jonni, I agree this discussion should be private.

      Reply
  12. bmaskmaker
    bmaskmaker at |

    Fascinating.

    I just received my invite to join Pinterest and haven’t bitten yet because I dislike linking facebook into the account. (I have an inherent distrust of how facebook shares my content.) …

    Anyway … I searched on Pinterest and found a picture of my Gargoyle pinned from the article on this site. If I click the picture of the gargoyle it says it was pinned 13 days ago from ultimatepapermache.com — which links to that article on this site — (so (tiny) amounts of google traffic coming your way from that.) : )

    But down the page it says ‘pinned via the web from ultimatepapermache.com — which is an internal pinterest link — which brings up the page that brings up all your photos — that you linked to above. That page also references ultimatepapermache.com but it’s a dead link. ?? (http:/// ) That seems like a problem.

    I pretty much agree with what’s been said so far. I understand when small sites copy (hope for attribution) but am weirded out by the pinterest language implying that because it was posted, they can now distribute, license, modify, etc. and profit from it.

    But for now, I’m not going to ask them to take it down. And I admit, my first reaction was flattered that someone pinned my gargoyle.

    Reply
  13. Brianna
    Brianna at |

    From what I have seen most copyrighted stuff is watermarked so that you can buy an unmarked copy from them.

    Pretty sure that is easy to do on most photo editing software.

    Reply
  14. Sharon M
    Sharon M at |

    Back to Pinterest. When I read up on the 2 sites you tagged Jonni, it was very clearly pointed out that the majority of people who post an Artists work do not tag back to the original Artist’s web or site. Consequently, those Artists are not revealed as the creator.
    Also, what I found distressing was the revelation that Pinterest (in some way I admit I don’t understand), places their tag on the work and holds that work indefinitely (as long as it’s useful the them) even if the originator of the work has removed it from their site/Web. Pinterest now in essence owns it, tagging it so that if it goes somewhere else, is then tagged, they are taken back to Pinerest. (does this sound as confusing to you as it does to me?)

    Reply
  15. patch
    patch at |

    Fair use, which is a ball of yarn all by itself, aside for a moment, and look to the heart of the matter:

    T.H. White once pointed out that every time you get something new in the way of abilities, you also get a moral decision you have to make. I think that is true about the web — your work gets massive exposure not really possible in the past without an advertising budget like Disney’s, but the downside is that yes, you have massive exposure. Not everyone is going to rush to buy your work, but simply to grab it up. So no, first you don’t kill all the lawyers, you need the help of an attorney when you find that someone has done this.

    First, you do the obvious first step yourself — you write the Desist or Die letter, warning the entity that took the work they can eradicate it from any visible surface they can control within 15 days, or you will make them wish they had. To answer Jonni’s query, there are different fees charged for different services rendered, which same depend on what has been done, how far it has gone, the money the infringer has probably gained or not, etc. But trust me, you will not be happy, as most of the time you will get a judgment that is, um, not enforceable.

    So forget Pinterest for a moment, and think it over: you can lock up your work and keep it from being copied or grabbed, but then, of course, people will not see it. The reason there is that long bunch of stuff that nobody reads but marks ‘okay’ swears that you have read and understand what is happening, so you cannot plead ignorance, which in any case, after you have the DorD letter, wouldn’t happen anyway. Music has always had a problem — come out with a hit song and a dozen road musicians will play it on Friday nights in any one of a thousand bars where enforcers never were or just left. Hard to keep up.

    But artwork? Mine’s been snitched on occasion, and I’ve been lucky, the jerks involved have always been small time and have folded, muttering they were sure the image was free when they got it. I wish I felt more flattered, but I never do when it is discovered. But it is part of the whole deal — if you are gonna show it, you have to expect to sooner or later step in and protect it. One of those things.
    [img]http://ultimatepapermache.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SailingIntoEvilSeasStampsize.jpg[/img]

    Reply
  16. GhoulishCop
    GhoulishCop at |

    Oh yeah, and your wolf looks great too! If there’s ever a question about whether you should show your mistakes or not, show them! I find seeing someone else’s errors — and how they correct them — is a great learning tool. It’s also comforting to know the masters aren’t perfect either. :)

    But how did you cut the ear off? Was that just with a razor? It looked like a very clean cut.

    Rich

    Reply
  17. Sharon M
    Sharon M at |

    Hi Jonni,
    Your wolf looks GREAT!

    I took a look at Pinterest when you 1st posted it. No good thing is going to come from this for we small artists.
    Hum, your question: “How much does a copyright attorney cost these days?” I’m curious too.
    In the mid 1980′s I was commissioned to create a full line of greeting cards for a small specialty shop here in Sacramento. The owner sold all over the U.S. I can’t begin to tell you how intensive that work was for me (not to mention the cost involved to get them printed). I immediately took out copyrights for each design and registered them with the government. Well, it didn’t take long before one of my designs showed up from a company on the East Coast. Exact same design and wording as on my original card. That company was soliciting my shop owner for her business to purchase “their” cards to sell.
    I contacted a Copyright Attorney, the nearest being a good 100 miles from where I lived. The initial consultation fee was $500.00 just to allow me to present my case. I’m certain 30+ years later, that fee is quite out of date.

    Reply
  18. Karla
    Karla at |

    Interesting thoughts here. I have just started using Pinterest and I use it as a visual bookmark organizing system. I find it very helpful. I am not sure about the copyright issues. How would seeing images there differ from, for example, images showing up under a Google search? FOr that matter, if someone really wants your image, there is nothing to stop them from doing a screen capture. I don’t … seems like if you put your images online — and yes, I do :) — you do so with the realization that some people may be less that honorable about what they do with your images.

    Reply
  19. GhoulishCop
    GhoulishCop at |

    “By the way – I love a good argument! Please don’t be offended if I take the other side, just to keep the discussion going.”

    Oh, heck no! My father used to take the other side of an argument even if he agreed with it because he said it made the discussion more interesting. But you are right about one thing: I never read the membership agreement! I didn’t sign up for an account, I only looked through the site briefly.

    And now, having waded through that and the original article you linked to (which I also initially didn’t read :) ), I’d say I just might agree with you now! I did read another article taking the opposite side and also bringing up Google — but it noted that by creating a thumbnail of the picture it was all okay. Also, because they have the copyright infringement policy that permits owners to challenge a pinned item it lifts a lot of the risk from Pinterest and puts it on the members pinning the items. I see from your article though that may not be good enough. Interesting issue nonetheless!

    Rich

    Reply
  20. GhoulishCop
    GhoulishCop at |

    Hi Jonni,

    I’d heard of Pinterest before, but never bothered to look at it until your post. From what I’ve seen, and I’m not lawyer — I think Shakespeare had it right, “First thing we do is kill all the lawyers” :) — is this wouldn’t fall under copyright infringement. Rather it would probably be considered under the “fair use” exceptions carved out of copyright law.

    According to that reliable source Wikipedia, there’s essentially a four-part test that must be met to fall under fair use: “look to the nature and objects of the selections made, the quantity and value of the materials used, and the degree in which the use may prejudice the sale, or diminish the profits, or supersede the objects, of the original work.”

    So I’d say a bunch of individuals not looking to profit off of the artwork but merely posting it on Pinterest for others to view and comment on would likely be covered by that exception. Of course lawyers can and do argue anything and are willing to sue anyone for a buck.

    Recently the law firm Righthaven teamed up with the Las Vegas Review-Journal and went after bloggers who quoted snippets from the news site, suing them for tens of thousands of dollars. They actually got a few settlements before someone took umbrage and fought back. The courts ended up squashing the lawsuits saying the bloggers usage of the snippets and links fell under “fair use.”

    So again, I think Pinterest would as well. Moreover I think artists might actually welcome the broader exposure their art gets by having it featured there. Naturally there are many shades of gray when it comes to legal issues, and at some point I imagine someone will go too far in their use of art images, but on the whole I wouldn’t be too worried about it and might be happy as an artist if some creation of mine was featured there.

    Rich

    Reply

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